Goblin Squig Herder [Archive]

Isak

09-21-2006, 07:16 PM

??an? dis one?s Chompy! Chompy?s a right devil he is! Rip a bugger right in two! See dis scar ?ere on me arm? Dats ol? Chompy?s ?andywork! I?mna go grab ?im? ?
- Greenstumps, Goblin Squig Herder

One-on-one a Squig is no match for the likes of a Hammerer or Ironbreaker, but the problem there isn?t the match, it?s the numbers. The toothy embrace of a pack of Squigs has brought down many a hearty warrior, and a Squig pack is never more effective than in the hands of an expert Herder. Using tools ranging from pipes to goads to bits of giblets, the Squig Herder drives his minions to a killing frenzy while fighting safely behind the lines. The Herder?s own ranged fire combines with the attacks of his minions to challenge any foe.

Squig Herder Specialty
It?s all about the Squigs ? at least as far as the Squig Herder is concerned ? and he knows all there is to know about these feisty critters. Commanding a pack of Squigs culled from those types he has learned to train, the Squig Herder can inflict serious damage on his enemies. With experience, he can learn to tame a broad range of breeds, control more powerful Squigs, and acquire more specialized abilities such as taking direct control of his Squig. His minions will even fight on after his death, wandering off only when the battle is done.

Playing as a Squig Herder
As a Squig Herder you lead from the rear, turning your Squigs loose on the enemy and supporting them with commands, arrows and bait while safely out of harm?s way. The most critical elements of your strategy revolve around your choice of Squigs for your pack, and the abilities you use to support them. Your various breeds offer you tools for different situations, and you must mix and match them to meet your needs. Tactically speaking, your job is to kill the enemy while avoiding his counter-attacks ? both you and your Squigs are deadly but fragile beasts.

Fighting the Squig Herder
The Squig Herder is essentially a fire-support career who wishes to hit you without being hit. As such, you?ll need to deny him that opportunity. Attacking him or his pets early ? either one, as the pets will live on after their master?s death ? is a sound strategy which will quickly reduce his damage dealing power. You must also be alert however, as Squigs can bypass your own line with their fast leaping movements and strike at your back field. You must strike a balance between the defenses you can muster against enemy melee fighters and the nasty beasts gnawing at your heals.

The Squig Herder Look
# Lightly armored in leather and equipment harnesses (often made from Squig skins)
# Outfitted with numerous and varied Squig herding tools (made from anything and everything)
# Carries a bow or spear for personal combat (or uses his Squig pipes for calling Squigs)

Athelstaine

09-24-2006, 09:02 PM

Was looking at at shaman,but i ahve always liked pet classesa s well.The way it id going looking like i will play teh herder.Hopefully most folks wont go play on teh good guy team though.

Gisli

09-25-2006, 10:31 AM

I predict this class will either be overpowered, or a total flop. These pet spam classes seem to always be so hard to balance!

Athelstaine

09-26-2006, 09:35 PM

Hopefully they wont be overpowered or useless.Back when i played teh tabletop game regularly,herders were some of the main forces i used.I was a gimp player my army was nothing but night goblins.Had no real heavy hitters just overrun folks was my motto.Just cant fiqure why i lost alot. :) Sure was the most fun i had losing though.

Guess we shall see when it is released.I am thinking of it working sort of similar to a WoW warlock,with a possible multiple pets like a bonedancer gets.As long as it is not as retarded as an animist then i will be happy.I kind of wish it would be sort of underpowered,hopefully there wont be billions of them around.

Snapp

04-04-2007, 02:48 AM

This sounds like an animist class from DAoC.
They have most likely taken the idea from DAoC and tweaked it a bit.

Rhyki

09-03-2007, 03:02 PM

I predict this class will be a real pain in the @$$ to fight against.
Especially if they implement PvP collision detection. Which means that you may not be able to effectively get to the herder before you are worn down by his pets.

Overking

09-10-2007, 02:19 PM

It seems their pets jump over enemy lines....

Socrot

08-08-2008, 11:43 PM

Sounds like you get three pets and can chose to have one out at a time each with different abilities/ However the recast is fairly quick so a birdy told me..

Belsarius

08-11-2008, 08:41 PM

it is a fun class, it is not like a warlock though from wow.

I can't really say a lot but the pets are interesting and all have their uses

Jesin

08-26-2008, 09:57 AM

Definitely interested in this class. I wanna see how it comes off the presses so to speak. I think Gisli is right: OP'd or UP'd will be it. I favor pet classes.

Athelstaine

08-27-2008, 09:56 PM

Well since NDA has lifted,i feel it is underpowered. Not due to the herder himself,but to his idiot savant squig pet. In my opinion they still need a ton of work. Supposedly ,they are working on it. Guess we will see.

Jalec

08-28-2008, 07:44 AM

Wazdakka

08-30-2008, 10:10 AM

i wouldnt be too worried. if they had it working correctly once(which from some of the posts it seems they did). They can get back to that again. its tied into the NPC AI most likely. Once thats fixed hopefully it will cascade.

This class is definitely not for everyone. If it's your playstyle you'll do well. if it doesn't come naturally there are better choices.

Radaghast

09-02-2008, 03:02 PM

I played this class through the entire preview and I had alot of fun with it, even with the busted pet.

If they fix the pet pathing and responsiveness during the open beta I may play this at release.

burt

09-02-2008, 04:57 PM

Gonna try this again during open beta to check out the 4.1 patch improvements. I'm not hopeful, as it mainly addressed melee/pet things, and I don't have high faith in pets being counted on as a main source of damage. But, we'll see.

Jalec

09-03-2008, 09:06 AM

im looking forward to trying these guys out. might even make my alt... i must be a glutton for punishment. magus as main and Squig herder for alt!

Koremark

09-03-2008, 10:29 AM

So is it true that when the Squig herder dies. it pets are still up and running ?

Like Mythic said they would.

burt

09-03-2008, 11:56 AM

So is it true that when the Squig herder dies. it pets are still up and running ?

Like Mythic said they would.

Nope. Pet disappears when you die, unfortunately. :(

Wazdakka

09-03-2008, 12:52 PM

So is it true that when the Squig herder dies. it pets are still up and running ?

Like Mythic said they would.

If there is one thing that I have learned about Mythic, besides that they can make a great game, it is that they will over-promise about pets.

Torlan

09-03-2008, 08:39 PM

lot of changes put in for these so far, but cant talk about them.... :huh:

Qizarek

09-04-2008, 12:54 PM

If they make a mushroom class, I'm not playing! ;)

Drakhon

09-05-2008, 08:05 PM

If they make a mushroom class, I'm not playing! ;)

But Greenskins are mushrooms.

Wazdakka

09-10-2008, 10:27 AM

I'm going to add this for those who are seeing a lot about how weak this class is and may love the idea but are considering rolling something else anyway:

The squig herder scales very unevenly as you level. Early on you are decent, then at the end of t1 you become kind of lame. You catch up in the early-to-mid twenties and in the early thirties you are in the middle of the pack again. Sadly, we haven't gotten enough t4 testing lately for me to know anything about how we do at 40.

On the bright side, since so many people think we are terrible, the gear on the auction house should be cheap as chimps.

burt

09-10-2008, 11:08 AM

Squig Herders are pretty terrible as a damage class.

I'm level 17 and wearing a mix of pvp and chapter 8 and 9 various quest rewards/public quest loot and also have the 1s cast plink and I still can't keep up in damage with any of the non healer classes. The only thing that lets me do comparable damage to Witch Elf/Marauder/Sorc is a stage 2 morale that boosts my damage by 100% for 6 seconds. The problem (as I see it) with squig herder is that they have basically no burst damage. All their damage is based on a ton of small hits, which makes them like an annoying DoT. And DoTs are easy to heal through.

Survival-wise, they're pretty bottom of the barrel also. Right now I've got one ranged snare that lasts 10s and is on 20s cooldown, a stage 1 morale knockback/down on a 60s timer, and a 10s cone aoe root with a 20 cooldown that will break within 1 or 2 hits if they take any damage. If any of those 3 fail and a melee gets on you, you're toast. Even with the bump in melee damage, you're not going to out-melee anything, even an Engineer.

The pet pathing now works and they did get an increase of damage, which helps a bit. However, once you hit 11 and start getting Mastery ability points, only your basic squig and the Mastery path squig you put points into will level fully up with you. Your other pets will slowly drop behind until they're about 15 levels (I think) behind you at 40.

The good news is that squig herder is a really fun class to play (deficiencies aside.) I love me some goblins and using Lots o' Arrers (channeled attack that fires a ton of arrows like a machine gun) makes me laugh every damn time I use it. I'm glad Wazdakka has optimism for the class. I really wanted to (which is why I'm playing it to 20 this week.)

However, plenty of people that play this class are going to be very disappointed by how lackluster they are compared to all the other damage classes. Last night I was capping Greenskin public quest influence while leveling. While I was working on killing 1 mob, the following things happened:

A marauder rounded up 5-6 mobs and aoe killed them all before I could kill my 1 mob.

A witch elf ran around and killed 2-3 mobs in a couple seconds flat.

A sorceress 3-shot half a dozen mobs.

And to top it off, after he'd killed his aoe bunch, the marauder ran over and helped me finish off my 1 dwarf.

The bottom line is, if you're easily amused and can keep yourself entertained by the fun factor of squig herder, without really caring about performance, you can probably play the class and get by. But, if you're looking for a damage class that can kill people swiftly, I'd look somewhere else.

Wazdakka

09-10-2008, 11:22 AM

But, if you're looking for a damage class that can kill people swiftly, I'd look somewhere else.

This part, at least, is true.

Thing is, if my PQ contributions and scenario contributions are accurate, well, I am outputting a good chunk of total damage, it is the spike damage that is craptastic.

burt

09-10-2008, 11:29 AM

Yea, you can crank out a fair about of total damage in pve if you've got a healer behind you. With my PQ A-Game on, I'm usually between 300-500 on the bonus roll. But I work my ass off to do it, and if there's any aoe healer in the bunch, it knocks me down a few pegs. I usually have a respectable amount of total damage in scenarios, but get blown away by aoe damage. But, you can't really judge scenario damage totals for how well a class is doing, because it comes down to whoever has enough healing to always keep them in the fight and doing damage. That witch elf, marauder, or sorc in a bad group with no healers that keeps getting killed has the potential to grossly outdamage me, but they just didn't have the resources to be kept alive like I did.

Wazdakka

09-10-2008, 11:39 AM

I rarely have good healing, because at this level I'm not partnering up with people who I know.

Anyway, I won't argue the point too deeply. The teens are crappy levels from which to judge the class, because at no point are you worse than at your teens. Later you become better, but not really great or anything. Sounds like you should definitely not play a SH.

burt

09-10-2008, 11:47 AM

I'm not. I'll be playing a shaman to heal people like you. ^_^

I'm really glad you enjoy the class, but it was disappointing to me and it will be to alot of other people, especially those like me who really wanted it to be better than below average and took any post that said "Hey, they aren't as bad as people make them out to be" and used that as hope, then got flattened when they actually try the class out.

I do encourage anything thinking about playing a squig herder, or any other class for that matter, to try it out for yourself. Anything anyone else says is their opinion. Keep what they say in your mind, but try it for yourself and form your own opinion. I know I did, and so did Wazdakka.

Gisli

09-10-2008, 11:48 AM

I think the key lesson here is one that I learned in every MMORPG to date. You can't judge any class until way late in levels. Yes, you can decide pretty quick that a particular game mechanic is not your style. But I don't think anyone knows squat about the true end-game value of any class they didn't play at level 30+. And even then, things could still change a lot by level 40. To complicate things, certain individuals can get a lot out of specific classes that others can't get anywhere with. And nerfs/fixes down the road can change it all over again at any time. So I think the only rationale choices are to either stick with a mechanic you enjoy and not worry about it, or else play enough classes so that you always have a functional toon handy.

To illustrate one of my points:
Voltari lead the server on RP totals for a long, long time... on a thane.
Chatie can kill in RvR better than nearly anyone I know... on a shaman.

Rimalder

09-10-2008, 11:52 AM

burt

09-10-2008, 11:53 AM

I think the key lesson here is one that I learned in every MMORPG to date. You can't judge any class until way late in levels. Yes, you can decide pretty quick that a particular game mechanic is not your style. But I don't think anyone knows squat about the true end-game value of any class they didn't play at level 30+. And even then, things could still change a lot by level 40. And nerfs/fixes down the road can change it all over again at any time. So I think the only rationale choices are to either stick with a mechanic you enjoy and not worry about it, or else play enough classes so that you always a functional toon handy.

Sure, but you can also decide early on whether or not you want to play through 39 levels of being worse than everyone else and enjoy the sweetness of finally being on par at 40, or still have the chance of not ever reaching par.

Drakhon

09-10-2008, 12:42 PM

Sure, but you can also decide early on whether or not you want to play through 39 levels of being worse than everyone else and enjoy the sweetness of finally being on par at 40, or still have the chance of not ever reaching par.

His point is that Tier 1 and 2 play is not a particularly good indicator of performance at 40. DoK's are considered very powerful in T1/2 but the relative power level drops in the higher tiers. We're not bad at 40 by any means, but also not near the gap that exists in the lower tiers. We also face the problems shared by all melee careers when you get into siege warfare.

There will also certainly be many changes after release as the greater population allows for a better examination of performance of all careers.

Wazdakka

09-10-2008, 01:08 PM

Question for the more experienced squiq herders about the masteries for paths of Big Shootin', Stabbin', and Quick Shootin':

I can see how Stabbin' might play a role in a nice, safe PvE setting, but it seems like if you try to melee in RvR, you will get your head handed to you regardless of how many points you add to the Stabbin' mastery. Am I correct to assume the wiser decision is to place a mix of mastery points in Big and Quick Shootin'? Let me know if I'm missing something obvious here.

Stabbin' is gruesomely bad right now (low levels only tested, of course). They just changed it over to be dependent on squig armor and it is really half-baked. I would say that the best specs are A: 4 points in Quick shootin', the rest in big shootin' OR Either 4 or 7 Points in Big Shootin' and the rest in quick shootin'. At the end leftover points would go into your secondary line.

There will also certainly be many changes after release as the greater population allows for a better examination of performance of all careers.

I am kind of depending on this, though my experience as a Hunter in daoc shows that to be pretty iffy.

burt

09-10-2008, 03:59 PM

His point is that Tier 1 and 2 play is not a particularly good indicator of performance at 40. DoK's are considered very powerful in T1/2 but the relative power level drops in the higher tiers. We're not bad at 40 by any means, but also not near the gap that exists in the lower tiers. We also face the problems shared by all melee careers when you get into siege warfare.

There will also certainly be many changes after release as the greater population allows for a better examination of performance of all careers.

I understood his point and disagreed with it for the squig herder. None of the upper level abilities/tactics/morales address the fundamental problems of the class. They don't have the damage to be a real ranged dps class and they don't have the support abilities to be a support ranged class.

I played a Hunter in DAoC, created right after the early archer nerfs right after release. It might be a different game, but it's the same company backing it. Sorry if my hope for this class isn't the highest. :p

I'm not going to play this class at release because, while sometime in the future it might get some buffs, it's not worth it for me to play it in its current incarnation.

I'm just here offering my own personal insight and experiences so that other people can have a rounded view of the class (adding Wazdakka and others' experiences to my own) and hopefully let them know what they're possibly getting into.

It's kind of lame to say that the class is a bed of roses and that everyone who picks it up is going to love it, just as it's lame to say this class sucks a big sack of apples and don't try it at all.

Everyone should read posts like all the ones in this forum to get a base opinion and then try it out if it still interests them.

In the end, play what's fun. I'd definitely never refuse a squig herder for a group and because I have such sympathy for the class, would prefer to help them out if I can. We're all friends here.:wub:

burt

09-14-2008, 02:13 PM

A little birdie told me that Mythic is aware of the lackluster performance of the squig herder and a few other classes and are looking at ways to improve the class.

The class is extremely fun to play and I know I'll be sitting on a Herder alternate for when I get bored with healing on my shaman.

Rusby

09-14-2008, 02:42 PM

I like little birdies. :)

Greenmind

09-15-2008, 12:46 PM

Which abilities can you use while using Squig Armor? It seemed like at level 14 I only had access to one damage ability.

burt

09-15-2008, 02:26 PM

Only the squig armor specific ones and a couple related to your pet squig.

Squig armor would benefit greatly with increased armor (as of now it buffs initiative, toughness, and strength I think?) and a blocking mechanism to allow it to be a mini tank. You wouldn't have all the class defining abilities of a real tank, but it would give the class better survivability if you were getting wailed on and needed a breather.

Radaghast

10-10-2008, 08:35 AM

From playing a squiq herder in preview weekend, open beta, and now in squiq herder damage seems to be up a bit now.

A pet class has to be the toughest class to balance, because if the pet is to be offensive they need to balance that damge with the squiq herders.

The problem is alot of squiq herders keep their pets on passive most of the time. I don't keep mine on passive, as soon as I see it taking damage I explode it and summon another to send at my target.

I only keep my pet on passive when I find a nice hidden perch and I use the +10% range squiq to maximize it :)

burt

10-10-2008, 09:50 AM

I don't remember what I posted earlier in this thread, but here's a few things I'd love to see added/changed to the squig herder:

1. I've heard Squig Armor becomes more viable later on with the few abilities you get with it, but it'd be cool if it were given an armor bonus and some sort of block or parry mechanic to become a semi-tank for pve and pvp survival for people that would like to melee. (Don't give me "Squig Herder is ranged! Don't let it melee!" Well, why have the Stabbin' tree anyway, then? Rangers in DAoC were ranged and could melee pretty dang well.) It wouldn't have the broad range of abilities/tricks real tanks have, like guard, hold the line, or the debuffs, but it would give the Herder at least an option for survival besides a buggy cone root and a snare on a long, long timer.

2. Take "All By Meself" tactic (25% more damage without a pet) and increase the damage to 35-50%, because not only is your pet dps gone, but you lose the buff associated with the squig and several abilities. Or have it boost damage enough to where the Herder's damage would be on par with a Shadow Warrior's pure archery damage.

3. LET ALL SPEC LINE PETS LEVEL WITH YOU, NOT WITH POINTS IN THE LINE. It's ridiculous that a Squig Herder has to invest points all the way to the top of their mastery tree just to have the pet be the same level. That's not even accounting spending mastery points on skills/tactics/morales.

Drakhon

10-12-2008, 09:32 AM

2. Take "All By Meself" tactic (25% more damage without a pet) and increase the damage to 35-50%, because not only is your pet dps gone, but you lose the buff associated with the squig and several abilities. Or have it boost damage enough to where the Herder's damage would be on par with a Shadow Warrior's pure archery damage.

The Tactic is not meant to be a complete replacement for a squig and a SH should never be at the full power level of a career without one. The exception here is Squig Armor but an SH in melee is already at a lower level of effectiveness, so it limits itself.

As it is, that Tactic allows a sacrifice of some raw power to gain improved mobility and ease of coordination. Also, if it works while in Squig Armor because you don't have a separate pet, that may be the primary intended application.

burt

10-16-2008, 01:50 PM

You lose out on the bonuses from having a squig out (the passive bonuses, the utility of the pet abilities, and the utility of the abilities you can only use with a squig out), so I don't see the problem with it.

Why shouldn't a squig herder be on par with Shadow Warrior without a squig if it's supposed to be on par with a Shadow Warrior with one? That doesn't make any sense.

It seems to me All By Meself was the option for people who wanted to be a ranged class that wasn't a spellcaster and didn't want to rely on a pet to complete a hefty chunk of their damage.

You can have a squig pet out while in squig armor, and there's already a tactic called Expert Skirmisher (25% more dmg if within 45 feet, 20% less if past that) that is tailored to squig armor. This tactic isn't for squig armor.

Drakhon

10-17-2008, 10:37 AM

Why shouldn't a squig herder be on par with Shadow Warrior without a squig if it's supposed to be on par with a Shadow Warrior with one? That doesn't make any sense.

It makes sense when you consider the fact that the whole concept of a Squig Herder is that they are a pet class.

Should a Disciple be able to choose to never use Soul Essence (most of our healing but also some damage) and yet still be on par with the other classes? What about a Shaman without WAAAGH!, a Sorceress without Dark Magic or a Chosen without Auras? Those are the "special mechanics" of other classes - the same role a squig fills for a Squig Herder.

Keep in mind that I do mean using a Tactic slot to make these changes as you are suggesting for the SH.

Wazdakka

10-17-2008, 12:16 PM

In case this is helpful information, I have tested quite a bit and the squig is about 25% of my damage in bothe pvp and pve. Seems to come out close to that whether I run the test for a scenario, a keep take, or solo questing. Maybe more like 27% really. That's with me in big shootin' and the pet being horned in rvr and standard in pve.

Drakhon

10-17-2008, 12:47 PM

Then there you go. You're mostly trading things like the range or armor buff for less of a hassle with controlling the pet. I'm fine with that - I think a major use for that Tactic is Keep defense assuming pets don't do very well on getting LOS in those situations (do they?).

burt

10-17-2008, 10:21 PM

Should a Disciple be able to choose to never use Soul Essence (most of our healing but also some damage) and yet still be on par with the other classes? What about a Shaman without WAAAGH!, a Sorceress without Dark Magic or a Chosen without Auras? Those are the "special mechanics" of other classes - the same role a squig fills for a Squig Herder.

You can't really compare a squig herder to a shaman, sorcerer, chosen, or any other class when comparing mirror classes, except marauder and white lion, because of the fact that the herder and shadow warrior aren't exact mirrors.

A warrior priest/disciple pretty much do the same thing with the same mechanic.

Shadow warriors have the marauder stances instead of pets, yet are ranged.

Do I think that a squig herder with All By Meself and no pet should be able to do the same damage as a Shadow Warrior? Yea, I do. Like I said before, why shouldn't it? You give up your utility for it. If you're disagreeing with me and saying a shadow warrior should be able to outdamage a squig herder using All By Meself, then you're saying you think a shadow warrior should be able to outdamage a squig herder with its pet out, because I'm saying that the % of bonus damage you get from All By Meself should equalize squig herder ranged shots with those of the shadow warrior, when the squig herder doesn't have a pet out.

Thanks for the info on the pet contribution, Waz. Is that parsing damage both you and your pet do over a certain amount of time? Do you parse when just you and your pet are damaging things? What about when your pet gets killed in 2 seconds and is on cooldown and you're forced to use a crappier squig for 30 seconds while your spec line one is on cooldown?

Wazdakka

10-17-2008, 11:46 PM

It's parsed over periods like the length of a scenario, a keep take, or an hour of pve. Seems to stay pretty stable even when I just leave it on for a couple of days. It also adds together all of the pet abilities as percentage of my damage. I am sure that it would be much higher if it only counted the time my squig is out. In rvr, squig movement time is as big or bigger killer than dead squig time, because I am decent at blowing up a dying squig.

Drakhon

10-18-2008, 12:13 AM

You can't really compare a squig herder to a shaman, sorcerer, chosen, or any other class when comparing mirror classes, except marauder and white lion, because of the fact that the herder and shadow warrior aren't exact mirrors.

I can because we have to assume that the ideal state of the game would be one in which all classes are equally "powerful" (which I use as an arbitrary composite term consisting of DPS, utility, HPS, etc and essentially equates to "are they worth the group slot?" or the Warhammer Tabletop's point system). Obviously this would be achieved through different means by each class and thus relative local power levels would vary with the tactical situation.

All classes have some form of special mechanic, though some are implemented better than othersm. They are distinctly tied to the class and no class should be able to ignore their special mechanic and yet maintain the same power level as if they didn't.

Do I think that a squig herder with All By Meself and no pet should be able to do the same damage as a Shadow Warrior? Yea, I do. Like I said before, why shouldn't it? You give up your utility for it. If you're disagreeing with me and saying a shadow warrior should be able to outdamage a squig herder using All By Meself, then you're saying you think a shadow warrior should be able to outdamage a squig herder with its pet out, because I'm saying that the % of bonus damage you get from All By Meself should equalize squig herder ranged shots with those of the shadow warrior, when the squig herder doesn't have a pet out.

The point I've been making is that a Squig Herder without a Squig should never have the total potential power that one with a Squig does. If enough utility is lost without a Squig then keeping overall damage output the same is fine.

However, All By Meself should be situational like all other Tactics. It should not be "I want to play a Destruction Shadow Warrior".

burt

10-18-2008, 12:15 AM

That's pretty interesting, then. What level are you up to now?

I'm not argumentative for the sake of arguing, btw. :p I just have a love/hate relationship with squig herder. I said I wasn't going to play one after beta, but they're just too fun not to play.

burt

10-18-2008, 12:29 AM

If enough utility is lost without a Squig then keeping overall damage output the same is fine.

However, All By Meself should be situational like all other Tactics. It should not be "I want to play a Destruction Shadow Warrior".

Ok, so you agree that a squig herder without a squig, who does lose a ton of utility currently without a pet, is ok to have the same overall damage output as he does with a pet?

Would you also agree that a mirror class of the squig herder, should do the same amount of damage, overall?

If so, then you agree that a squig herder without a pet should do the same damage as a shadow warrior. :D

And of course All By Meself would be situational. In scenarios, it's good to have a pet to put on healers and prevent them from getting off their 3s heals and to pushback spells on all casters. But, in keep sieges, the squigs are pretty much useless because they will get utterly destroyed in no time at all, then you have to waste time and energy to resummon them, only to have them die again. This is why I think it's perfectly ok to have All By Meself boost herder damage to that of shadow warrior.

Drakhon

10-18-2008, 12:42 AM

That's pretty interesting, then. What level are you up to now?

In general or on a Squig Herder? I'm 38 on my Disciple, but though I messed around with them at various Ranks (including a bit at 40, I was in beta for over a year), I have not leveled an SH beyond about 8. I do not claim to be very knowledgable about the ins and outs of the SH, but the beauty of my argument is that it is class neutral - no class should be able to sacrifice their special mechanic and remain just as powerful as if they didn't (even if it is in a different way) - so I don't have to be.

I'm not argumentative for the sake of arguing, btw. :p I just have a love/hate relationship with squig herder. I said I wasn't going to play one after beta, but they're just too fun not to play.I understand. I'm not saying Herders don't have problems or that they don't need to be improved, I just didn't agree with that specific suggestion.

This is why I think it's perfectly ok to have All By Meself boost herder damage to that of shadow warrior.

I believe I initially misinterpreted what you said to mean that you were looking for the same overall power level. After that, I was just trying to make myself understood. ;)