Class comparisons

[Gisli]

I thought it would be interesting to compare Order vs. Destruction classes, since many (but not all) are mirror images or each other. And the folks who haven't had the chance to play might get some help picking their classes from the discussion.

I'm not too familiar with order classes, so a lot of the subjective opinions might be wrong.

First the healers.

Shaman = Archmage. So far as I know, these classes are pretty much the same. Possibly Archmage has more survivability? Shaman has the signature "Gork Sez Stop!" morale.

Zealot = Runepriest. So far as I know, these are also pretty even.

Disciple of Khaine = Warrior Priest. So far as I know, these are fairly even as well. Possibly Warrior Priest is stronger? That could be because I hear Destruction whining more, only because that is who I spend my time with.

Sorcerer = Bright Wizard. On paper, I understand them to be pretty much the same. There is one important difference though. Sorcerers have calm AOE graphics. BWs have horrificly bright graphics. This has two effects. First, since the BW effects are so much more obvious, the perception is that BWs do more even when they don't. Second, and more importantly, BW spell effects lag a lot of people (me included). That gives them a practical advantage.

Magus = Engineer. I hear a lot of people say that Magus is weak. I don't know if Engineers are perceived as weak or not.

Witch Elf = Witch Hunter. I think these are pretty much the same. However, Order again gets an advantage because Witch Elves only come as unclothed females. Lots of people refuse to play an unclothed female.

Black Orc, Chosen, Sword Master, Ironbreaker. Honestly, I don't know much of anything about Sword Master and Ironbreaker. I think the Sword Master is like the Black Orc. Does the Ironbreaker have auras like the Chosen?

This leaves us with four classes that are all rather distinctive.

Squig Herder - Ranged pet class. Vs White Lion - Melee pet class. When White Lions first came out, they were the real flavor of the phase class. The toon seemed as tough as a tank, and the pet seemed way overpowered. And it didn't seem to cost them anything to throw their pet away. Lately, they don't seem so impressive, so I guess they got toned down?

Marauder - Melee AOE. Think Bainshee with survivability. I don't think there is any equivalent on the Order side.

Shadow Warrior - Ranged on-the-run DPS with melee ability. Nothing like this on the destruction side, since I don't think the Squig Herder can be considered an equivalent.

Both Marauder and SW seem like really good classes. I played SW a bit the one time we did Order. That's a class I really like, and really miss not having it in Destruction. But thinking strategically, it seems to me that Destruction is better served by having the strong melee AOE class for keep warfare.

[Drakhon]

Shaman = Archmage. So far as I know, these classes are pretty much the same. Possibly Archmage has more survivability? Shaman has the signature "Gork Sez Stop!" morale.

Zealot = Runepriest. So far as I know, these are also pretty even.


Mostly true. Archmages get more in the way of debuffs than Shamans and Runepriests are more survivable than Zealots for a couple different reasons.



Disciple of Khaine = Warrior Priest. So far as I know, these are fairly even as well. Possibly Warrior Priest is stronger? That could be because I hear Destruction whining more, only because that is who I spend my time with.


Largely the same, true. Disciples have the advantage when it comes to group buff auras as our Covenants other than the armor buff one are simply superior to the Warrior Priest's prayers. Two-handed weapons beat out dual wield by a bit for abilities though, giving WPs better damage and therefore healing from abilities that heal based on their damage.



Sorcerer = Bright Wizard. On paper, I understand them to be pretty much the same. There is one important difference though. Sorcerers have calm AOE graphics. BWs have horrificly bright graphics. This has two effects. First, since the BW effects are so much more obvious, the perception is that BWs do more even when they don't. Second, and more importantly, BW spell effects lag a lot of people (me included). That gives them a practical advantage.


Again, very similar but I believe Bright Wizards have more dots and shorter cast abilities. This may not be the case by now, however.



Witch Elf = Witch Hunter. I think these are pretty much the same. However, Order again gets an advantage because Witch Elves only come as unclothed females. Lots of people refuse to play an unclothed female.


Lots of people refuse to play females (especially unclothed), but lots of people would also play Witch Elves for just that reason. As far as the classes themselves go, the Witch Hunter's finishers are ranged (30') while the Witch Elf's are not.



Black Orc, Chosen, Sword Master, Ironbreaker. Honestly, I don't know much of anything about Sword Master and Ironbreaker. I think the Sword Master is like the Black Orc. Does the Ironbreaker have auras like the Chosen?


The Sword Master shares the Black Orc's 1-2-3 combo system, but are designed to be the "anti-magic" Tank where the Black Orc is the "dirty tricks" tank with knockdowns and such. Well, that was the idea anyway. I can't say for certain if it plays out that way in truth.

Ironbreakers do not have auras - that was supposed to be the Knight - but can "Oath Friend" a group member that makes a number of their abilities grant bonuses to that person. Their power (Grudge) builds as they or their Oath Friend are hit.



Marauder - Melee AOE. Think Bainshee with survivability. I don't think there is any equivalent on the Order side.


The White Lion provides this functionality for Order, though the abilities are split between the character and the Lion and mostly don't come until later levels.



Shadow Warrior - Ranged on-the-run DPS with melee ability. Nothing like this on the destruction side, since I don't think the Squig Herder can be considered an equivalent.


The SH does provide this.

The key here is that while a lot of classes have very similar counterpart, others share their "Subarchetype" (anti-magic tank) with a different class than their "Special Mechanic" (3-hit combo system). This is messed up a bit with the removal of two Tank classes. However, before the removal of the four classes, the split was about even on this front.

[bisett]

the magus is different i have not played the order side but i have played the magus abit. it has nice debuffs, roots, dps from what i can tell is bout a medium output. the pets right now are not working as intended but if the pets get fixed i could see this class being like a pbaoe in a keep defence. pet can do pbaeo and so does the magus. this class is one i still have interest in, but does not think it has a counterpart on order side to compare with.

[Mugen]

The engineer is indeed the counterpart to the magus. This may not be immediately obvious especially since the engineer was released so much earlier than the magus.

As to their strength, I do think its true that engineers are in a slightly better place than the magus right now, but thats not terribly surprising. It seems like it was relatively recently that Mythic has decided on the role the magus and engineer are to fill (specifically I mean, obviously both are RDPS). I think that given some time and certainly before release both will be in a much better place.

Im not really sure how much I can post in the way of specifics, so I will just leave it at that.

[LeMieux]

Shaman = Archmage. So far as I know, these classes are pretty much the same. Possibly Archmage has more survivability? Shaman has the signature "Gork Sez Stop!" morale.

The Archmage is slightly better at healing and the Shaman is slightly better at offense.


Zealot = Runepriest. So far as I know, these are also pretty even.

The Runepriest has a leg up on the Zealot because their runes are functional, and have more practical uses. I suspect in 3.4 when Zealot rituals get a second look they'll be more in line.


Disciple of Khaine = Warrior Priest. So far as I know, these are fairly even as well. Possibly Warrior Priest is stronger? That could be because I hear Destruction whining more, only because that is who I spend my time with.

I think this is just perception, the DoK and Warpriest are virtually identical.


Sorcerer = Bright Wizard. On paper, I understand them to be pretty much the same. There is one important difference though. Sorcerers have calm AOE graphics. BWs have horrificly bright graphics. This has two effects. First, since the BW effects are so much more obvious, the perception is that BWs do more even when they don't. Second, and more importantly, BW spell effects lag a lot of people (me included). That gives them a practical advantage.

There's also a matter of resistances, the Bright Wizard gets all elemental damage and Sorceress gets a mix of Corporeal and Spiritual. So I think in the end the Sorceress actually comes out ahead a little. But again, there is perception, the Bright Wizard will likely attract a lot of players with it's big booms and psychological edge.


Magus = Engineer. I hear a lot of people say that Magus is weak. I don't know if Engineers are perceived as weak or not.

Both the Magus and Engineer are getting rehashed I think, so can't really comment on how weak or powerful they are just yet.


Witch Elf = Witch Hunter. I think these are pretty much the same. However, Order again gets an advantage because Witch Elves only come as unclothed females. Lots of people refuse to play an unclothed female.

This is a big factor, personally I tried Witch Elf, and enjoyed how it played. But in the end I just couldn't bring myself to play a barely clothed Elf. I think Witch Hunter definitely has the edge here, plus the executions on the Witch Hunter are all ranged.


Black Orc, Chosen, Sword Master, Ironbreaker. Honestly, I don't know much of anything about Sword Master and Ironbreaker. I think the Sword Master is like the Black Orc. Does the Ironbreaker have auras like the Chosen?

Black Orc and Sword Master are very similar, they both have chain-styles that lead to greater effects. They are three-phased and when you are in a phase you can only use abilities pertaining to that phase. So you have to be smart about how you play them.

Chosen and Ironbreaker are not really mirrors. The Grudge system is too different than the Aura system.

This leaves us with four classes that are all rather distinctive.


Squig Herder - Ranged pet class. Vs White Lion - Melee pet class. When White Lions first came out, they were the real flavor of the phase class. The toon seemed as tough as a tank, and the pet seemed way overpowered. And it didn't seem to cost them anything to throw their pet away. Lately, they don't seem so impressive, so I guess they got toned down?

This is sort of where it gets odd. The Squig Herder is actually the mirror of Shadow Warrior, and the Marauder is the mirror of the White Lion. They sort of tossed things up to keep them somewhat different I suppose. White Lions now are still pretty powerful and they have a lot of attacks similar to Marauders but not a lot of interest is being put into them. Squig Herders along with Magus and Engineer I think are getting a rethink, so while they aren't powerful right now, they will be different. So, it's hard to say.


Marauder - Melee AOE. Think Bainshee with survivability. I don't think there is any equivalent on the Order side.

Shadow Warrior - Ranged on-the-run DPS with melee ability. Nothing like this on the destruction side, since I don't think the Squig Herder can be considered an equivalent.

Shadow Warrior is a very balanced and well thought out career. I hope they do the same for Squig Herder without losing the flavour.

[Steingrimr]

The Bright Wizard seems to present itself as a much more visible target. The pbaoe of the BW just screams "Hey, I'm the guy in the cloth right in the middle of this patch of burning ground. Come kill me!" The more subdued effects of the Sorc seem to help shield it a little from view.

I was thoroughly impressed with the mix and match combos of the Black Orc. I love the mechanic, as it forces you to really know the class and determine the right action for the time.

Using 'Kick em in the Jibbilies' to kill a stuntie made me giggle with schoolgirlish glee. :D

Mythic seems to continue on their trend with the scenarios as they did in DAOC, keeping the lower level BGs small in scale and focus, building from there as you level. As we level and the battles get more complex, I think we're going to see some shifts in how classes are viewed. I think giving engineers and Magus some time to setup a defense in keep is going to be really scary.

Last night before I headed off to bed I went exploring the world a bit and was very glad to find a number of natural choke points and barriers. The T2 keep (Fangbreaka?) was very cool and well suited for defense. There are lots of tight stairwells and ramparts for ranged to rain death down. There are a few spots in there where it looks like Chosen and Black Orcs can clog up the stairwells giving the other classes time to shine and setup some of their abilities for full effect (Zealot rituals come to mind as one of those perceived weak abilities that could be devestating in keep/siege battles).

[bisett]

in the lord's room in the keeps is where zealots marks will come nicely into play,AE 226DOTs and the magus will be able to setup his pet right where the ramp goes into the room, if played well a lord room defence will be amazingly hard to take if setup correctly

[Ligon]

About tanks.

Swordmaster and BO are pretty much the same in core as in they have same 1-2-3 mechanic.

Swordmaster = Magical damage and can debuff magic resists through tactics for bigger hits.Option to do good AE damage (imo the best way to play this class).Kinda light on CC.

BO = Good single target damage (tbh my BO at 31+ does better single target damage than my white lion).Can debuff armor for bigger hits.AE damage even if speced so so.Kinda light on CC also.

So basically SM for AE magical damage + resist debuffs.
BO for single target damage + armor debuffs.
Neither for CC and support protection imo.
These are more linebreaker/assist train type tanks imo.

Chosen and IB are the two tanks for CC and protection.

They have really different mechanics.

Chosen is the aura type buffer/debuffer,CC heavy tank.
IB has single target buffs,most defensive tank and a bitch to take down if they want also CC heavy.

Both IB and Chosen can do ok/good damage also if they want but IMO that is not where their strenghts are.


I hope this helps a bit...tried to make sense and be short about it :P



EDIT:

Also white lion and marauder are pretty much the same....Mythic just made a big no no moving some core abilities from WL to its pet (like snare wtf) and not giving any bonuses from it really.While marauder stance dances.But these two are mirror classes.

[Rondel]

Anyone have links to really in depth class write ups?

I've decided not to play beta, but would love to go into day 1 with as much knowledge as possible!

[Skadiego]

2 of the better write ups I've seen. Check the forum for some other gems.

Marauder
http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1144636#post1144636

Disciple of Khaine
http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57310