and so it begins.. script/mod wars

[Dall dies to much]

http://www.curseforge.com/

click around..

here is one of interest...

http://war.curseforge.com/projects/khalid/


le sigh

[LeMieux]

I don't understand...isn't this the sort of thing Mythic is encouraging? I thought they wanted player addons.

[Dankus]

Ugh, I don't like this stuff. WoW was such a script /mod fest and you were really at a disadvantage if you did not have them. They finally realized that 3 years later and started curtailing them.

I don't mind a few player designed mods as long as it does not get in the way of pure skill.

[TheHourOfTheMice]

...might as well have the game play itself for you. we'll see how it goes though...although letting the carebear training wheels mod community have this much freedom is a bad idea, just as it was in wow.

[Dall dies to much]

...might as well have the game play itself for you. we'll see how it goes though...although letting the carebear training wheels mod community have this much freedom is a bad idea, just as it was in wow.


thank you, thats my entire point I am making on VN and other places

Skinning the UI (colors, Icons, information that does not help with DIRECT combat) is one thing

a bloody "script mod" that auto targets players so people can heal them is something that cannot be allowed

[LeMieux]

Are you saying that you want them to take away the ability for people to script? Which by virtue of being there, they are allowing?

Anyway, I don't think it'll be all that big of a deal honestly. RVR is entirely too massive. Individual actions weigh far less than group actions, so scripts will play a far smaller role than in a game like WoW.

[Dall dies to much]

Are you saying that you want them to take away the ability for people to script? Which by virtue of being there, they are allowing?


yes, I think it is a Royal screw up on their part. we are not even live yet and this crap is starting. this is the icing on the cake tonight for me with the server list that was published today.

and what of us that are going to run 6v6s? hell.. if they get these hooks working with Warbands? what about sernerios? tactical advantage there for sure :(

[Llyweln]

Even for non 6'ers, its sad....would be afk hot bots...cant see much fun in that at all.

[LeMieux]

yes, I think it is a Royal screw up on their part. we are not even live yet and this crap is starting. this is the icing on the cake tonight for me with the server list that was published today.

and what of us that are going to run 6v6s? hell.. if they get these hooks working with Warbands? what about sernerios? tactical advantage there for sure :(

I guess so, I can't really bring myself to care all that much. If it comes to a point where I need a script for an edge, I don't mind using it. Maybe it's because I'm not all that great a player.

[Dall dies to much]

I'll get you a screenie of my daoc UI in a sec.. forgot my hosting site PW :P

and I'll start showing my WAR ui right now


edit:

http://usera.ImageCave.com/Dalldall/sshot028.jpg

here is my UI from Daoc ... i would consider it a massive reskin, the extra buttons in the upper left gave info (RR points, crafting data, etc), the only reason the lower right bars are there was that was the bear minium I could get with that UI. Icons are old school.. not those barfbag ones they made later on. main bar 1 -sub bars 2 and 3 had timer abilities I needed hotkeyed, the two bars under the main bar were for long timers and a few clickable things I needed. hell.. there was an option with that UI I had to feed a Windows Media player window into the UI to watch movies while playing ;)


here is the start of my WAR UI Skin

http://usera.ImageCave.com/Dalldall/Dall^M_013.jpg

notice the clean up of the targeting windows, etc?


these kinda things I got no issue with.. they are just a reskin.. but self aware targeting mods.. BAD

[Fuga]

Don't worry guys ;) Trust me.

[Daewen]

If you guys think mods like that are bad, you've obviously never looked at the macro bots that they've made for these games, that do play the game for you.

As for the "Emergency Monitor", any healer who thinks that healing the person with the lowest health is what you always need to be doing is a douche bag anyway. Let them use a little tool.

[Gwiragan]

I don't think the sky is falling just yet. Mods provide useful enhancements to the game interface and many gamers wouldn't be able to even play the game without the help they provide. Mod authors can't provide any functionality that the Mythic API doesn't allow and I'm sure they're considering game balance in deciding what functions to allow and disallow.

I'm going to wait for the monster to show his face before I grab my pitchfork and torch.

[Selwynn]

Ugh, I don't like this stuff. WoW was such a script /mod fest and you were really at a disadvantage if you did not have them. They finally realized that 3 years later and started curtailing them.

I don't mind a few player designed mods as long as it does not get in the way of pure skill.

Let me add to this:

I love customizable interfaces. Which I sometimes simply say as "I LOVE mods." I was a UI-customization-aholic in WOW. Was one of my favorite things about it.

I don't think there's any reason why it needs to be either/or. I love mods that allow you to revise your interface the way you want for style. I would PREFER that was as far as it would go though.

If I had my way, a good rule of thumb would be, any mod that modifies the mechanics of combat gameplay in any way is not allowed. So, a mod that gives you more information about your guild easier, or redoes your windows to be cleaner/smaller/cooler/etc. is fine. A mod that gives you a pop up anouncement when another player debuffs you is NOT fine.

I probably had 15-20 different addons installed and none of them modified combat gameplay in any way. I once installed a threat meter in WOW, but I got rid of it because its just too automated.

Hopefully Mythic will curtail the code that modders are allowed to manipulate to keep the game pretty pure.

[Selwynn]

I don't think the sky is falling just yet. Mods provide useful enhancements to the game interface and many gamers wouldn't be able to even play the game without the help they provide. Mod authors can't provide any functionality that the Mythic API doesn't allow and I'm sure they're considering game balance in deciding what functions to allow and disallow.

I'm going to wait for the monster to show his face before I grab my pitchfork and torch.

Should be pointed out too, that modders often contribute directly to the positive evolution of the game. In WOW, many mods that simply should have been a part of the game in the first place were later added by Blizzard.

Blizzard added additional bars, blizzard added scrolling combat text and lots of other things that had little or nothing to do with making combat "easy" but did improve the overally quality of the interface. It was the modding community that was to thank for those improvements.

[Drakhon]

It was the modding community that was to thank for those improvements.

True, but they were also to thank for a number of negative changes to content design as well.

Blizzard designed some encounters that were too centered around debuff removal (Lucifron, for one). The modders developed Decursive (and similar). Once this became prevalent (until it was eventually disabled), an encounter designed with debuff removal as an important component had to be designed in a way that made it nearly impossible without the mod.

Threat meters were developed to make stuff easier but again, once they were prevalent, encounters were designed with very complex threat mechanisms that were pretty unreasonable without the mods.

Obviously there were guilds and people who didn't use the mods. The trailblazer guilds could only use threat meters effectively on encounters that didn't have the complex mechanics if they used them at all because the mods had to be programmed specifically for each encounter after significant testing.

Still, while many mods resulted in good changes to the game, a number also resulted in bad changes, at least for a period of time. The key is to mostly focus on redisplay of information that is already available without having "YOU HAVE DEBUFF X" popups.

[Necodamus]

I'm in the camp of people who don't like any mods that do things for you.

If you can't play the game without something that selects and heals the people that "need it most" then I really feel that they shouldn't be playing the game. Can't play well without it is a pretty lame excuse if you ask me. [This of course barring the fact that some people might actually have a physical problem. If that's the case, well, then... I have no clue!]

Changing the look and presentation of information.... go for it.

[Gisli]

I've often heard Mythic intone the mantra: One Button, One Action. I interpret that to mean that they would not be in favor of mods that can alter gameplay. I know nothing about what is actually available out there. But until proven otherwise, I'm inclined to believe that Mythic intends to keep a leash on what mods can do, and will adjust the interface as necessary to keep it so. In my opinion, there are better things to stress over right now. :) Plenty of time to get mad about this later if necessary.

[Dall dies to much]

I can multi stress :P


but as of right now, that wierd auto health targeter is the only one..which means if mythic sees it, they might rip the hook out

a LOT of hooks are missing that people want, least ex-wow peeps.. aka target of target is just not doable due to the API

[Selwynn]

I can multi stress :P


but as of right now, that wierd auto health targeter is the only one..which means if mythic sees it, they might rip the hook out

a LOT of hooks are missing that people want, least ex-wow peeps.. aka target of target is just not doable due to the API

Which I think is good. My personal preference would be to not add any combat functionality through modding... which I would consider "target of target" to be just that. Instead you have to pay attention to the game and see what your opponents are doing.

That said, if they add it so that you can create target of target, it is not the end of the world and the sky is not falling, I don't think.

[Fhuul]

I'm down with cleaning up the artwork as I prefer a clean UI. I'm even okay with mods that do conditional based UI changes, as long as it's just to change the information displayed. Was a Discord junkie back in the WoW days.

These auto-targeting type mods though are a no go. Hoping Mythic stomps them out pretty quick.

[Broggle]

I think all healing Mods should point to Broggle!! nough said :)

[IvarrWolfsong]

I guess so, I can't really bring myself to care all that much. If it comes to a point where I need a script for an edge, I don't mind using it. Maybe it's because I'm not all that great a player.

not to get all flamey but that is a crap excuse. I may be old fashion but the "I just need a little edge" excuse doesn't hold much wieght for me. Even if Mythic doesn't outlaw it, it is still cheating in my eyes. I'd rather lose on my own than have some third party "win" for me.

[Sentack]

It can be cheating in your eyes but as long as Mythic allows it, then it's not really cheating at all.

Not to forget, these are just tools people use to enhance their game experience. Some of them may seem cheep but remember, they also make it easier for you to do more in the game. Thus, anything that helps making healing that much easier, means you can focus more time doing damage or rezing targets on the ground.